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mrrichbee
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NARS Equity Holding Trust
Friday, January 02 2009 08:06 PM
Has anyone any knowledge or has anyone used a NARS Equity Holding Trust through North American Realty Services, Inc. in CA to buy or sell property? This is a product developed by a guy named Bill Gatten that supposedly is a far better way for everyone involved to sell and/or buy real estate. Just wondered if anyone is familar with it. Thanks
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, January 04 2009 12:01 PM
I have written about this previously on this site thru other postings. However, you should be careful using land trusts the way NARS suggests. They use LT's to invest with co-owners and co-beneficiaries in a way that can bring you liability that you do not want. I personally would not invest using a land trust as they suggest.
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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mrrichbee
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Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, January 04 2009 01:47 PM
What sort of liability issues are there using this system? thanks
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, January 04 2009 03:08 PM
Amongst other liability issues, the liability created by becoming a co-beneficiary to a land trust is NOT what you want.
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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mrrichbee
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Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, January 04 2009 04:20 PM
I'm confused here a bit, so bear with me, if I am co-beneficiary to a land trust, what sort of things could cause me liability issues other than issues I cause myself? For example, if a creditor were to get a judgement against me, they can only attach their claim to my share of the interest in the trust can't they? And if a judgement is against another beneficiary isn't it only against them (except for similar examples as what follows)?
I can see how if the property were occupied by someone who is not a beneficiary, say a renter, and they got hurt somehow and sued, that even if I only had a small interest percentage I would still be held liable, but this would be the case even if I were a part owner in a property not in a land trust. Isn't part of the purpose of the trust to 'shield' the beneficiaries from being listed as owners in public records to help slow down the pursuit by litigation attorneys?
And lastly, from what I understand of Gatten's system [and that's not much] the only beneficiaries involved are the seller of the property, the investor, and the buyer, who all have 'skin in the game'. Supposedly this is to discourage them from flinging frivolous lawsuits at each other, among other things.
Thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated!!
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Scott L Moyes
NARS Network Member and Master Affiliate
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Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 01:39 PM
As a long time NARS Professional Network Member and now the only Master Affiliate and Training Director for NARS, I would like you to elaborate on your post.
What liabilities are there in becoming a beneficiary of a NARS EHTrust? Can you please be specific and detailed in your reply.
I've been a member for over 7 years and completed over 100 transactions myself and assisted our members in over 100 more using the NARS EHTrust. I would never do a Real Estate Transaction without using the NARS EHTrust.
Thank You
Scott L. Moyes
NARS Master Affiliate and Professional Network Member
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 02:02 PM
MrRichBee,
I'm confused here a bit, so bear with me, if I am co-beneficiary to a land trust, what sort of things could cause me liability issues other than issues I cause myself? For example, if a creditor were to get a judgement against me, they can only attach their claim to my share of the interest in the trust can't they? YES.
And if a judgment is against another beneficiary isn't it only against them (except for similar examples as what follows)? YES
I can see how if the property were occupied by someone who is not a beneficiary, say a renter, and they got hurt somehow and sued, that even if I only had a small interest percentage I would still be held liable, but this would be the case even if I were a part owner in a property not in a land trust. Isn't part of the purpose of the trust to 'shield' the beneficiaries from being listed as owners in public records to help slow down the pursuit by litigation attorneys?YES, THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF A LAND TRUST IS TO HIDE OWNERSHIP FROM THE PUBLIC EYE.
And lastly, from what I understand of Gatten's system [and that's not much] the only beneficiaries involved are the seller of the property, the investor, and the buyer, who all have 'skin in the game'. Supposedly this is to discourage them from flinging frivolous lawsuits at each other, among other things. YES, THIS IS TRUE BUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS LIABILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF A CO-BENEFICIARY. BEING A CO-BENEFICIARY IS LIKE BEING A GENERAL PARTNER IN A PARTNERSHIP. YOU CAN NOT EVEN THINK OF ALL THE EXPOSURE HERE. THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS. SO WHY TAKE ON THIS PERSONAL LIABILITY? I WOULD NOT. I WOULD ALSO NOT BE A "PARTNER" WITH ANYONE ON THE PLANET...TOO MUCH EXPOSURE IN THIS LAWSUIT HAPPY WORLD! AND FURTHERMORE, THERE IS NO NEED TO DO THIS. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF SETTING UP THE BENEFICIAL INTERESTS TO AVOID THIS PROBLEM.
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 02:06 PM
Scott,
There is nothing special about a "NARS trust" It is just another land trust with a twist. I am not saying that a nars trust beneficiary is different than any other land trust beneficiary. what i am saying is...please see my recent post explaining...so i do not have to repeat my self here.
thanks,
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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rithban
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Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 04:45 PM
"please see my recent post explaining."
Could you at least provide a link? It's not apparent where that is.
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rithban
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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 04:51 PM
"BEING A CO-BENEFICIARY IS LIKE BEING A GENERAL PARTNER IN A PARTNERSHIP."
This is one of the most bizarre things I've heard. Do you have support for this assertion?
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 04:53 PM
It is above my last posting above this post. See my answer to the questions from "Mrrichbee"
Go to our discussion form at: www.realestateforprofit.com
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, January 26 2009 04:57 PM
Bizarre but true. Study up on this and you will find out. I have studied and used land trusts for over 25 years. I know of what i speak.
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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Scott L Moyes
NARS Network Member and Master Affiliate
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NARS Equity Holding Trust
Tuesday, January 27 2009 01:18 AM
A Co-Beneficiary Interest in a "valid" Illinois Type Title Holding Land Trust, spefically the NARS EHTrust, IS NOT at all like a "Partnership" and is not and cannot be treated as such.
I still fail to see where you have specfically pointed out where the additional liability of being a co-beneficiary in a valid THLT is.
There is no question that there is tremendous liabiltiy in being a party to ANY form of Seller Assisted Financing, but where is this additional and liability you speak of by being a co-beneficiary of a NARS EHTrust.
Being a co-beneficiary does not cause you or anyone more liability. In fact I would contend that if you are a beneficiary of a "properly constructed" (emphasis added), THLT, your liability, since it IS NOT a Partnership in any way shape of form, is reduced or even eliminated.
There is something very special about the NARS EHTrust. It is a Trademarked and Patent Pending Process of Documentation that is fully legal in all 50 States. It has stood the test of time and many challanges, in and out of court. It has prevailed in every challange to it. It not only protects the property but also the beneficiaries from each others legal or other issues.
I see here next to this thread, a Lease Option Home Study Course. Lease Options, in my personal experience and opinion are teh single most dangerous way for anyone to be involved in Real Estate. The IRS ruled on Lease Options way back in 1917 naming them Delayed or Diguised Sales, regardless if using one document or two seperate documents. Dang, talk about liability!
I'm not looking for an arguement or challange here, but why do you make such statements about a system you do not know anything about. The NARS System is taught for free over a 2.5 Day Workshop, perhaps you should attend and not only meet the creators of this Incredible System but the "Legal" Staff that backs it up and supports it and it's members.
We'll be in San Diego this weekend if you care to join us.
Scott L. Moyes
NARS Master Affiliate and Professional Network Member
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Tuesday, January 27 2009 02:29 PM
Scott,
Please do not take offense at my comments about using co-beneficiaries under a land trust. This has nothing to do specifically with the "NARS" system and everything to do with land trusts in general. The simple fact is that if you want to be safe rather than sorry, I would not be a co-beneficiary with ANYONE. This is a "belt and suspenders" approach to setting up your trust and protecting your assets. If you have spent a life time building a substantial net worth, you do not take these issues lightly. Liability is liability and the less exposure to the legal system the better off you will be. If you want to roll the dice and expose your self to thousands of dollars of legal fees to find out the answer to this question (by getting a local judge's opinion...it's your money).
Regarding your invitation to the workshop...I will pass. My brother and I teach land trust seminars all over the nation and i doubt that I would learn anything new.
I do appreciate your input on this forum and hope that you will continue to contribute.
thanks again,
p.s. We do teach in our classes how to circumvent the "co-beneficiary" problem and protect yourself from liability. We will be teaching a class in March in your area. Maybe you should attend?
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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Scott L Moyes
NARS Network Member and Master Affiliate
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Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Tuesday, January 27 2009 02:47 PM
Thanks and no offense taken. You may have noticed that I emphisized the term "properly" in my last post. I "personally" never hold a co-beneficiary interest in a Land Trust. I believe you and I are on the same page with that.
Again, thank you for the reply and perhaps we'll cross paths while on the road to success.
Scott L. Moyes
NARS Master Affiliate and Professional Network Member
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Bill G
investor
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Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Tuesday, February 17 2009 05:44 PM
Dear Mssrs Hughes,
I have reviewed your web site and compliment you on it, and am aware that you are both very knowledge in the area of land trust structure and usage in the U.S.; so let it suffice to say (with a friendly smile) that you do still need a LOT more education on what we at NARS do with the land trust.
Our systems do not constitute "just another land trust" as you state...our NEHTrust(tm) system does involve the use of a simple land trust at its base: however, far more importantly it incorporates myriad features and benefits that no other company or real estate transfer system can (at present anyway). As well, it safely allows for legitimate forms of lease option, lease purchase, equity shares, contracts for deed, all inclusive mortgages (wraps) devoid of the standard pitfalls and dangers of these devices...as previously employed for the last 50 years.
I recently championed your knowledge of land trusts and recommended you as a speaker on land trusts to two California real estate investor clubs...I will likely continue to do that if called upon to do so; but I do have to admit that I am chagrined to discover that you are advising your followers here not to use our program, and suggesting that there is something inherently dangerous about it. Such a statement has repeatedly been proved false in local, state and federal courts time and time again. There simply is no safer way to acquire, hold, manage or dispose of real property absent a new loan and full down payment and perfect credit.
We are not competitors of yours. In actuality, we have no problem with our clients coming to you for the land trust documentation and then coming to us to facilitate the NEHTrust(tm) Transfer (i.e., beneficiary agreement occupancy agreement, assignment of beneficiary interest, exculpatory documents, rider verbiage, legal review, escrow paper work, agency disclosure, establishment of any LLC or personal property trust (or living trust), etc. that would be needed to conform to any state's legislation.
Note though that we do very little in Louisiana, Tennessee and Washington State where land trusts are valid, but where the states do not espouse the Doctrine of Equitable Conversion (i.e., changing ownership characterization from realty to personalty), therefore, impeding one of our most valuable benefits (eviction vs foreclosure), in that co beneficiaries are deemed users land rather than users in in trust).
Please understand that we have completed well in excess of 5-6,000 of our type of land trust transactions and have never been successfully challenged or sued; nor have we ever had difficulties with bringing about eviction (e.g., unlawful detainer actions), judicial processes, litigation between parties, due on sale violations, IRS audits, etc: and that;s over a period of well in excess of twenty years (NARS est. 1984).
I sincerely ask that you please be thoughtful, and of course fair, in you assessment of us and our extremely valuable and successful programs. You are cordially invited to any one of our three-day workshops (on me) any time you'd be willing to spend the time to find out what it is that we really do.
Bill
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Tuesday, February 17 2009 07:52 PM
Bill,
Bill,
Thanks for your input. We do not recommend against your NARS land trust. We are sorry that you got that impression. We speak of land trusts in general on our website and our discussion forum. We have heard very positive comments about you and your system and will continue to be positive about you and your specific type of land trust. You serve a valuable service and we do not intend to "stand in your way."
Hope to meet you in the near future and talk "land trusts" with you.
Randy and Jim Hughes.
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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Bill J. Gatten
Investor/Sales trainer
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Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Monday, April 13 2009 05:33 PM
Randy,
Thank you for the kind words.
No problem here. You guys do know your stuff and I appreciate and respect that.
Although we create simple land trusts for our clients, that's not at all a large part of our business. Our program is designed to facilitate any manner of creative financing...but with the protective asset shield of the co-beneficiary land trust model.
Over the years we've come to the rescue of many dozens of clients who would have been sorely taken advantage of (sued, sanctioned, restrained and even gone to jail) had they tried to accomplish the same end-results and objectives with the standard creative financing models (lease options, land contracts, equity shares, wrap-around mortgages, etc.) in lieu of the NEHTrust(c) (tm)(Pat. Pub).
We're not out to compete with, or besmirch, anyone...or even set the world on fire...we simply have a great program that has worked without a hitch across the US for thousands of folks for nearly twenty years now.
Best Regards,
Bill J. Gatten
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Martin Johnson
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Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, June 14 2009 01:04 PM
I am in Washington and would like to know specifically what is "wrong" with ILT in our state.
In the past few weeks I have contacted many prospects, both buyers and sellers, and was just about to purchase from HUGHES or NARS or Both?
But now I am curious what the "problem" in Washington might be.....?
I have 7 properties equalling 1.95M and 3 RB's ready to go, now I am skeptical of moving forward knowing there may be an "issue" with ILT that I have no knowledge of.
Can someone please shed some light?
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Randy Hughes
Land Trust Expert-40+ years of experience
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Re:Re:Re:Re:NARS Equity Holding Trust
Sunday, June 14 2009 03:33 PM
Martin,
I am not aware of any problem using a Land Trust in your state of Washington (it may be referred to as a "common law trust" or some other type of terminology). It is true that Washington does not have a specific Land Trust statute, but they are still recognized and legal to use. If you use a Washington Land Trust to hold title to property in Washington state...the Trustee is required to have some "duties" such as to distribute the property or to pay taxes. But this is not a big problem to deal with. Also, i would point out (and we teach this concept in detail in our home study courses) that you can (and should) use another state's trust laws when forming your land trust to hold title in your state. This gives you excellent privacy and asset protection benefits. We recommend the best state for you to use in our course materials.
Hope this helps. Feel free to call me if you want to discuss which one of our Land Trust courses would be best for you.
1-866-696-7347
Randy Hughes
866-696-7347
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